Then Allah, the Most High, said: "So what?" This means that it resulted from that when he completed his work and perfected it, that they, meaning Ya'juj and Ma'juj and others, were not able to make it rise above it due to its height and solidity. "And they were not able to make a hole in it" due to its thickness and hardness. The addition of the 'ta' here indicates that the height of it is more difficult than making a hole in it due to its elevation and hardness, and the interlocking of some parts with others until it became a single mass of iron and copper at the height of the mountain. Ibn Khurdadhbeh narrated from Salam the interpreter, whom the Commander of the Faithful, Al-Wathiq, sent to him, that he saw its height was as far as the eye could see. And if they had tried to build a staircase from their side or place soil until they appeared above it, it would not have benefited them because they have no way to descend from the other side. This is supported by the fact that they will emerge at the end of times by making a hole in it, not by appearing above it. The negation of their ability to make a hole in it does not contradict what was narrated by Imam Ahmad, Al-Tirmidhi in the tafsir, and Ibn Majah in the fitan from Abu Rafi' from Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, from the Messenger of Allah, blessings and peace be upon him, who said: "Indeed, Ya'juj and Ma'juj dig the dam every day until when they are about to see the sunlight, the one who is over them says: 'Return, for you will dig it tomorrow.' They return to it as they were before until when their term is reached and Allah intends to send them against the people, they dig until when they are about to see the sunlight, the one who is over them says: 'Return, for you will dig it tomorrow, if Allah wills.' He makes an exception, and they return to it as it was when they left it, and they dig it and emerge upon the people." - the hadith. In the hadiths of the two Sahihs from Zainab bint Jahsh, may Allah be pleased with her, from the Prophet, blessings and peace be upon him: "Today, a hole has been opened from the dam of Ya'juj and Ma'juj like this," and the Messenger of Allah, blessings and peace be upon him, made a circle with his hands. They narrated it from Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, and in it: "Like this, and he made a circle of ninety."